MY FIRST POST

This blog was originally intended to be “our” blog, hence, “chuckyandregita.blogspot.com.” Due to the fact that I am not very fond of writing, this has become Liz’s blog. For those of you who don’t know, I am Chucky, Regita’s husband, though my friends call me Josh. This discussion about who to vote for has caused me to wake from my blogging slumber.

I just want to say I love all of you that have read this and have commented. Even those of you I don’t know, and especially “Anonymous #1.” I just wanted to clarify a few things. Liz and I are christians. We love our Lord Jesus and try our best to follow hard after Him. We also are extremely Pro-Life. The idea of being anything other than that has never crossed our minds. I would assume we are just as passionate about a child’s right to live and the sanctity of life as many of you. In fact, all glory be to God, I am here today because my parents are pro-life, and even though they were hounded [to put it lightly] by doctors to abort me, they said, “no” and went ahead and brought me into this world. So I am here because my parents are Pro-Life, and essentially we all are.

This has been a very hard election for us. We have been, by default for McCain until recently. We have researched and done our best to not be ignorant in our voting. With my health, the state of the country, and now bringing a child into this world come March, we have found ourselves actually caring about issues and things we have never cared much about. With all this being said I have a question for you all that I hope is not misinterpreted in its purpose or sparks anger within you. That is not my intention. Here it goes:

AS A CHRISTIAN, SHOULD WE VOTE FOR WHO WE THINK SHOULD LEAD OUR COUNTRY SOLELY BASED ON THEIR STANCE ON ABORTION?

This is mainly what everyone who has commented has based their reasons on. If there are other reasons, we can at least admit it is the main reason. Like I said, please don’t misunderstand or skew where Liz and I stand concerning abortion. This has been very hard for us to even consider voting for someone who is Pro-Choice. When I look at the state of our country, our reputation to the world, think about our education [and now bringing a child into this world that will experience these education proposals], health care, taxes, foreign policy, and we can go on, I wonder if abortion is the only issue I should be concerned about.

No candidate is perfect, and it’s impossible to like one guy completely and accept all he stands for. I just often wonder, as christians, if we are fighting the wrong battle in this war. Like I said earlier, I am here today, born after Roe v. Wade, because my parents are Pro-Life, not because it was illegal to have an abortion. This goes a lot deeper than a law here, and we seem to be fighting the symptoms at times instead of trying to cure the disease.

We have had many Pro-Life presidents since Roe v. Wade and nothing has changed. I am not throwing in the towel or raising the white flag here, but I just wonder if this is the make or break issue here for Decision ’08. I get everyone’s argument that the President will/might get the opportunity to place two new justices on the throne this term. We also went over this same thing in Bush v. Kerry and Bush v. Gore, etc.

When it all comes down to it, Liz and I are not liberal, democrats, pro-choice, or what have you. We have really struggled and have fought and prayed for godly wisdom to vote the best we can.

I just pray God gives us all wisdom. I appreciate the comment that “He is on His throne,” because that truth is so sweet to the ear during times like these. I pray that we all don’t vote solely based on whether or not we call ourselves a “democrat” or “republican”. That we research ourselves and don’t just listen to opinions like mine for example. That we go to good websites like http://factcheck.org and don’t get all our info from biased news stations on both sides of the spectrum. I pray that we vote with integrity, and talk about the candidates with godliness, and do not judge one another, but love one another.

Thanks for reading. This will probably be my only post because I will more than likely be ridiculed out of the church, then my wife will have to change the url of this site to http://www.regita.blogspot.com……please be nice.

P.S. Please, answer the question and don’t pull one of those moves the candidates do during the debates. For example, “Senator, spell out for us your position about the war in Iraq.” Senator’s response: “Sure Bob, we really need to face head on this energy crisis, and my opponent doesn’t care about energy, but I do……”
-Don’t do that. Thanks

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33 thoughts on “MY FIRST POST

  1. Well, congrats on your first post Josh, or Chucky. Don’t worry, I personally will love you and Liz no matter how you vote! I am proud of you guys for looking at this so carefully and really doing your research. I will answer your question, just not right this second. Just wanted to tell you I appreciate your honesty! Love you guys

  2. Im back!! Anonymous #1 from other post. First, I want to apologize for my jolted answer. Even the name Barack Obama jolts me to the core of my being, and it really sickens me when fellow Christians can see any good in him, but I guess we all have our rights to believe in whatever, so forgive me on that.I am not voting for McCain purely because he is against abortion. Although that is a very serious issue for me, it is not my deciding factor. I do not think that people should only be voting one way on one particular issue. my issue with Barack Obama is that he is shady and clearly goes against alot of the things that I hold to be true in my heart.One thing that does bother me though is that people are calling him a christian. HE IS NOT A CHRISTIAN. whatever or whoever told you that is so so wrong. Just because he says he goes to church and says he is “christian” does not make him one. You will know a christian by their fruit and he shows NO fruit of serving and following the Lord Jesus Christ, so lets make that clear.I also understand that the Lord has appointed our next President regardless of who we vote for or the issues we discuss but i think it is important to discuss things that you feel passionate and led by the Lord over.Here are my MAJOR issues that I have with Obama and why I will NOT vote for him.1.He was raised in a Muslim household. He went to a church that promoted hatred up until 6 short months ago.2. He was sworn into his position on the Koran. Not that Bible.3. When he graduated college he went back to his hometown only to come back to the US to buy a multi-million dollar home but wont state how he received the money. (Muslim groups funded it)4.A large part of how he is paying for his campaign is not accounted for and will not say how it is. (Muslim funded)5. He is completely for gay marriage, abortion, letting babies die if an abortion goes wrong, etc which is horrible.6. he wants me, as a teacher to teach my 5 year old students that being homosexual is ok and how to prevent getting diseases.7.he is against the war, i wonder why, because its against his people. (we spent 30 billion on war last year, and 330 billion on funding for illegal immigrants, so it cant be a money issue!)8.he wants us to stay dependent on foreign oil. i wonder why?9.he has never truly led anyone or anything in his life but we are trusting him to lead our country.10. he started the company ACORN in his living room to register fake voters to help his campaign and does not deny it.i could go on and on and on. i do not fully agree with everything that mccain is running for or believes in. i understand we have our differences. but about 99% of the things obama stands for is against my beliefs and in my personal opinion, against those of the Lord’s. lying, cheating, killing, being deceptive, is not something i want in a president. not at all.

  3. Who is this anonymous #1 and where are they getting there facts? If you want to be bold and throw at statements, stand up for them and put your name… dont hide. Anyway, liz and Josh, I think Bradley and I have been just as confused… especially since Bradley’s boss is the most anti-Obama person I have ever met, so he is always spewing “facts” at us that we never know whether they are true or not and make us question everything even more. To be honest, we don’t know who we are going to vote for. We just need to keep praying we make the right choice… and if we don’t, God is in control anyway:)And to answer your question Josh, I think that you can’t base your decision sole on their position of their stance on abortion. I am very pro-life and very conservative, and yet I feel that so many presidents have gone into office saying they are against abortion and then nothing changes once they are in office. That is why I have finally decided to not make my decision based sole on that fact. I can’t speak for Bradley, I believe he 85% agrees with me:) That is just my belief though… everyone must make up their own mind.Can we pick new candidates? Thats what I want:) -Kaylin

  4. Wow!! I leave for a couple days and world war three has happened over your blog! I’m voting for McCain. I don’t think Sen. Obama is a Muslim, is being funded by them, hates babies, and/or wants to see his “people” take over. To answer your question, I think God is the only One who can judge the heart of man. Republican or Democrat, pro-life or pro-choice, no one likes abortion. It sucks. Whether or not you vote for either candidate is a matter of whether you think legislation will be effected. I don’t think either candidate will necessarily be the voice of change when it comes to a woman having an abortion or not. That’s not why I’m voting for McCain (although I am pro-life so it doesn’t hurt). Can a Christian vote pro-choice? That’s not even a question I think I can answer for someone else. I need to worry about where my heart is in the matter and let others wrestle with it in the same way.Lindsey

  5. First off, kudos to you both for making a stand on what you believe and how you’ll vote. Second, I am highly likely going to vote Obama, too. It has not been easy either (and in fact, I actually considered voting for myself as a write-in candidate just because I can and am older than 35…)In any case a thoughts:1) Anyone unwilling to place his or her name next to egregious comments such as Anonymous #1 is, quite frankly, a coward. I’ve seen this too many times in the 3 years I’ve blogged. If you’re going to make a stand on an issue, be man (or woman) enough to stand by it and stick your name next to it.2) Having read Obama’s “The Audacity of Hope”, his chapter on his faith in Jesus was very powerful, and convinced me that he has a heart for Christ, regardless of the failings of the pastor at his Chicago church.3) A book I strongly recommend is Gregory Boyd’s “The Myth of a Christian Nation.” Boyd preached a series of sermons in 2004 that eventually became this book when members of his congregation wanted him to take a stand on how to vote. What he said eventually led to 20% of the church leaving (church of 5,000).He writes: My thesis, which caused such an uproar, is this: I believe a significant segment of American evangelicalism is guilty of nationalistic and political idolatry. To a frightful degree, I think, evangelicals fuse the kingdom of God with a preferred version of the kingdom of the world (whether it’s our national interests, a particular form of government, a particular political program, or so on). Rather than focusing our understand of God’s kingdom on the person of Jesus – who, incidentally, never allowed himself to get pulled into the political disputes of his day – I believe many of us American evangelicals have allowed our understanding of the kingdom of God to be polluted with political ideals, agenda, and issues.Boyd cites plenty of Scripture to show that ultimately, as Christians, our allegiance is to only One Kingdom, and One King…Jesus.Reminds me of Derek Webb’s lyrics in his song “King and a Kingdom”There are two great lies that I’ve heard:“The day you eat of the fruit of that tree, you will not surely die”and that Jesus Christ was a white, middle-class Republicanand if you wanna be saved you have to learn to be like Him…My first allegiance is not to a flag, a country, or a manMy first allegiance is not to democracy or bloodIt's to a King & a KingdomProud of you both for coming out with your perspective. Stay strong!

  6. Hi Chucky & Regita!Hmmmm….voting season: the most wonderful time of the year:)Is being Pro-life the sole issue to vote for the leader of our country? No, but it is the deal-breaker. A person's stand on life issues (abortion, euthenasia, end-of-life care) deals with human rights. That stand will/should permeate all of a person's decisions. Health care, taxes, military, foreign policy and education are all important, but not fundamental rights. That's my simple answer. For a more thorough answer (and wild discussion), go to Randy Alcorn's blog http://www.randyalcorn.blogspot.com/ —starting Oct 16th. I am so not cool (but I am groovy….)Rainy T. (the old geezer)

  7. Well, I wish I had an hour to respond to this, but I have kids to chase around. 🙂 So I’ll keep it short. Great post, Josh. I agree with Rainy, check out Randy’s blog for more of an explanation on the pro-life issue of all this. I do think a President makes a big difference in the issue because he appoints Supreme Court justices. Obama has promised to appoint pro-choice judges and do all he can to promote abortion (look at his voting record and statements to Planned Parenthood more than one comment in a debate), even partial birth abortion. I don’t understand how our country can call itself “civilized” when we practice such a barbaric and horrible thing. Anyway, I too hate to just vote for someone based on one issue so I’ll add that I’m a little afraid of Obama’s tax plan. I do think Republicans haven’t been as compassionate or generous with the poor as they/we? really should be. However, is the best plan to tax the heck out of businesses so that they can’t pay their employees and have to lay people off? Then we have more unemployment and more people who need welfare and then they’re stuck, no job, just handouts, no businesses to pay almost all the taxes in the country and lots more people needing assistance. I just don’t know that that’s the best plan either. I know capitalism has its issues, but after living in countries where capitalism isn’t really working, let me just say that the alternatives are much worse. Some people have to get ahead so everyone else gets ahead. I wish we weren’t so sinful and socialism could really work. But we don’t share nice, never have. We’re waiting for heaven for that. In the meantime we just have to do our best to look out for each other and pray we don’t act as selfishly as we’re prone to.Well my kids need some attention and I don’t pretend to understand it all, but just wanted to throw this out there, for what it’s worth.- Sarah

  8. Wow, what a discussion! To answer your question, I don’t think the abortion issue is THE issue, and voting for someone because they are or aren’t pro-life would be silly (to use a nice non-judgmental word) Out of all the things a president needs to do I am sure that there is not much time spent discussing abortion. I have heard Obama explain why he votes for the things he does and it was actually nice to hear. He does not like to kill little babies… he is not a murderer… he knows that in any case abortion is not a good thing and that it is a VERY hard decision, and that decision belongs in the hands of the individual. We are all alive because our parents are pro-life not because the president was. Even IF Roe vs Wade was over turned, people would still get abortions, just illegally or in another country. I am not saying that it is good to have legal abortions in the US, but it is a VERY complicated issue and to choose the leader of the country based solely on his stance on the issue, seems just… silly.

  9. Like a loser…I rather missed the key question…And I believe that answer is “No”. It is NOT the bellweather topic by which I place my vote. It’s an important consideration, but not critical.Why?While I am pro-life, I’m pro-life all the way, from unborn to those who are already alive. More importantly, I’m pro-ETERNAL life.We have one mission…Matthew 28:19-20.We have two commands – Love God, and Love Each Other.There are people dying out there everyday because they don’t yet know Jesus. Let me ask…does our political stance on abortion prevent us from sharing the Gospel to those who may disagree with us?That’s why it is not the key issue for me in determining a president (or senator or representative, etc.) We’ve got more important issues to fight for…the eternal lives of those who don’t know Jesus.

  10. This is a great time for us to read our country’s Declaration of Independence. It reveals the basis of all that is American. Our country is supposed to give us the the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (property.) The right to life is held up as a standard of our inalienable rights, given by our creator. Thomas Jefferson wrote: “And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God.” (Notes on the State of Virginia, 1782)It is no wonder that those who govern us question when life begins- as our country becomes more secular, even denying God.Our own country’s constitution dictates the way we evaluate a man. If he is willing to deny our first freedom, the right to life, why would that same man protect our liberty or property? I would challenge each of you to read our constitution and pray.

  11. When it comes to president, I do think voting pro-life is one of the main issues. Do I want change? Sure. Do I believe things aren’t that great right now? Sure. But I also don’t believe that the president has the all power to make our America a better place. It is really going to come down to the party that rules the house and the senate. We have to pay more attention to those positions than we currently do. Unfortunately there is a lot of “politics” going on and our congressmen and senators keep getting caught in protecting the party than voting for what is best for their constituents.We need to recognize that being pro-life is not just a matter of being able to legally have an abortion. Treasuring the value of life is core to how you make many decisions in our life. And how our president values life will effect his decision making as well.Keri

  12. Warning: I care deeply about politics & faith and can get a little feisty when the two are mixed, so I am sorry if these comments offend but I have always spoke my mind and I see no reason for that to change on this topic. End of warning.First, of all let me say (in response to the comments on the last post) I think it is totally ridicules for anyone, especially a Christian, would question my faith based solely on my plans to vote for Obama; that he or she would called me unresponsive to the truth of the Gospel without knowing my depth of faith, my sacrifice of service or the fervent manor in which I pray, is a horrific reality which I cannot fathom. Furthermore, it is irresponsible to egregiously misrepresent the faith background of an elected officer for political gain, and does not reflect the love of Christ. Lastly, it is comments and thought like this that causes the world to so bitterly hate the church, Hank Hanegraaff would remind us, the Gospel is an offence, and we need not add to the offence by the way we communicate it.OK, my thoughts on the afor mentioned question. I am strongly pro-life, and recognize the sanctity of all forms of human life. I support life before birth, after crime, in a state of war or mental defect and before death. (“before birth” = Classical pro-life, “after crime” = Abolition of Capital Punishment, “in a state of war” = Regard for the lives of soldiers on both sides and non-combatants (against genocide), “a state of mental defect” = Protection for those with mental developmental issues and “before death” = Against euthanasia) To think that a pro-life position is limited to abortion is to overlook the true span of life. To see the Korean child who is missing a leg due to a landmine, and imagine, the global landmine ban is not a pro-life issue is wrong. To hear the Afghan child cry for bread, and think, the US and European wheat subsidies are not a pro-life issue is wrong. To feel the inner city black child writhe with the pain of another gun death, and know, gun control is not a pro-life issue is wrong. It is wrong, to look back at the churches (main stream, notable exceptions are the Quaker and Mennonite denominations) response to the inhuman treatment of slaves and the horrible nature of the slave trade and absolve the church of any wrong doing; concluding she was acting in the culture of the time. It is also wrong, to see the sterilization of the mentally ill, by my home state of Oregon in the 60’s, and think she was serving some greater good. It is absolutely wrong, to reduce the election of the president of the United States to one issue, no matter the issue, no matter one’s faith. These are my thoughts, I am what many would call the Christian left; but I am fervently independent, siding with different parties on different topics. I would love to field any questions on the topic, just drop me a line. Jim Wallis wrote a good book on the topic “God’s Politics.”It is my avid prayer that God be glorified in all I do, and hope these thoughts express that end. Daniel Peterson

  13. It just gets better and better. More and more believers saying that Abortion is not THE issue. I dont think of myself as overly smart but even I understand how it works. The Pres brings along a truckload of others to the big house and they all start making changes, some good and some bad. I just finished watching an Obama clip at a planned parenthood rally and his exact words are he is not willing to “YIELD” on the issue of abortion. It is hard for me to believe a Christ follower at a rally for planned parenthood. I say actions speak louder than words so believe a book or what he says about how he loves Jesus, I am going to stay skeptical on that one.So a few people have asked if a Christian can Vote pro choice.Can someone who follows Christ endorse or support someone that turns their heads to murder of innocent lives. And if it is silly to vote mainly on the abortion topic, than I will be proud to be called silly.I have enjoyed reading everyones thoughts and comments, it has got me thinking and praying, which is always a good thing. I want to thank everyone who was willing to share (especially those who gave their names). I am glad people are so passionate and thoughtful on this subject and election. One last thought, has anyone thought about the goal of planned parent hood ( a huge supporter of Obama) It isnt to just keep on doing the work of the evil one, it is to eliminate the alternative help centers , like PRC, that are helping save lives of babies and show God’s love to the families that are involved with these incredible life changing decisions. Bryan

  14. I agree with Bryan. Come November 4th, I will be voting for Mccain. Now, I’m not entirely crazy for Mccain, but I know I cannot vote Obama with a clear conscience. My pastor is currently doing a series on “Decision 08”, tackling difficult issues having to do with the election. He addressed abortion 2 weeks ago, and the Biblical principle of respectfully praying for those who God has placed in authority over us (regardless of our own opinions) this past week. It has been awesome to hear, pray and think about. I like Mccain, and not Obama, for a plethora of reasons, and struggle with my generation loving Obama largely for the fact that MTV “choose or lose” says he’s the ‘cool’ candidate to vote for…without knowing the issues their indirectly supporting. I will continue to pray and vote for whoever God allows to lead this country, because I believe that it is biblical to do so. Good discussion though. 🙂

  15. I think that voting for someone solely because they are pro-life is a pretty hasty thing to do. I am a pro-life, follower of Christ who, like many others, is voting for Obama. By casting your vote for someone who is pro-choice you are not necessarily endorsing everything that that person stands for. Also, voting for a pro-life candidate will not make abortion go away. The past eight years we have had a pro-life president who appointed two conservative justices to the Supreme Court and abortion is still legal. Simply voting for someone who is pro-life does not get you any closer to eradicating abortion. And for that matter neither does overturning Roe v. Wade. Abortion has always taken place and always will as long as there is sin in the world, whether it is legal or not. Education and working personally with people are, I feel, some of the biggest deterrents to abortion, not politicians and legislation. (And please don’t misunderstand what I am saying here: I think abortion is terrible and I wish that it didn’t exist.)Frankly I don’t care who anyone votes for in this, or any, election. My only wish is that they would think about the world as a whole and give both candidates a thorough, objective look before deciding. Many people who have posted on this blog have done that and are voting for McCain (which is fine by me), but others I feel have not. To me, it is sad when Christians refuse to look at the good in another candidate, or the bad in their own choice simply because their choice says that they are pro-life (often only referring to abortion and doctor assisted suicide, forgetting about war, genocide, famine and capital punishment).Thank you guys for the forum of discussion. Keep on thinking…

  16. Very good comments so far, and I appreciate everyone’s input, especially those of you who specifically answered my question. Thanks for having guts and not pulling the classic politician response. For a few of you I would just like to say that it would be really cool if we don’t attack people’s salvation as if we know that person intimately or can see the condition of their heart like God can. Anonymous #1, thanks for commenting. It would be helpful for us, and I think for your intention of obviously trying to sway people against Obama, to offer up maybe a small bibliography of sorts about where you get your information. I would love it if we continue to pray and discuss these things. A few more questions have come to mind over the last day in just reading everyone’s comments and thinking myself.I think a more specific way to phrase my original question, that could tell us if being pro-life is the only issue at hand this election is this: If Obama were Pro-Life would you vote for him?I really struggle, if I’m being dead honest with you all, with this idea that I feel like, as a christian, I’m supposed to just ask, “which candidate is Pro-life? Oh that one? Ok, that settles it then.” And go on with my life like a decision like this is that easy. We talk like it is, and I cannot in my heart of hearts believe that that is at all the right way to approach this election. Why do I waste my time looking at other issues and listening to the stances of each candidate on those issues. We can talk like we actually have taken the time to think about other issues and things that this country has to face, but if this is the only issue we care about, voting is so easy. A few more questions I have been battling in my heart are:Are we blaming the wrong people here? If Obama gets voted into office, does he have blood on his hands for every abortion that takes place in his 4 year term? Does that mean that George W. has blood on his hands for all the abortions that took place in the last 8 years? Or is he exempt because he has taken a pro-life stance?Why do we not talk about the parents when discussing this issue? Politicians are not out encouraging people to kill their unborn child. In fact by living in a pro-life government, no one is demanded to make an abortion. It is solely based on the parents choice. So why do we blame politicians and do not talk about the parents?I know it is so hard to hear tone when reading someone’s typed words. I hope you don’t hear anger, frustration, or anything aimed at anyone in particular that has commented here. These are sincere questions that I have been asking myself lately, because I have never even thought much about the issue until this year. I have always done what it sounds like a lot of us do. “Which candidate is Pro-life? Ok, that’s who I am voting for.” And that settles it. All I do know friends and family, is that 20 out of the last 28 years, we have had a pro-life President in the office and NOTHING has changed. Like Andy Whipps said, abortion has always been around because we are sinful. It’s not like Roe v. Wade was passed and America started having abortions. So, I just question whether getting fired up about this issue every four years, declaring if we can just get a Pro-Life president in the office then things will change, is enough. Friends, do you think we keep barking up the wrong tree? Is abortion really the politician’s fault? Or is it the parent’s fault, but we can’t put a face on the parent so we lash out against a President and blame him. There’s got to be a better way. There has to be, cause this just isn’t working.

  17. Thanks everyone for being honest and sharing their views on what I think is one of the most important decision anyone has to make. I won’t share my opinion here because it is pretty obvious by what I do (I am a lobbyist for Planned Parenthood) where I stand on this issue. I am used to people being pretty harsh about what I do for a living, used to being called “not a Christian” and I (for the most part) am able to stand firm. I know what I believe and why, I know this issue is a very emotional one and I know that Jesus loves me and every girl that I fight to protect. I am mainly commenting to share this website http://www.matthew25.org/. I think it speaks for itself so I won’t say anything more but I believe it gets to the heart of the question that Josh asked, can you be pro life and pro Obama. Blessings and love to you all.

  18. Josh and Liz,Just wanted to say there are two Sarahs commenting on here. I’m not the one who posted either of the links. I’m not even sure what’s on them, but wanted to say it wasn’t me, just in case. 🙂 I probably won’t post again on this, not because I’m mad or anything, just because I want to be careful and respectful and I can be kinda bad with that when I’m in a hurry and can’t really sit down and talk with people in person. But you guys have a good discussion going here. :)Love you guys,Sister Sarah

  19. Anyone interested in hearing more about the very question Josh asked, please go to Randy Alcorn’s blog right now. I emailed him a couple days ago and asked him Josh’s question. He gave a very thorough, scripture based answer. Get a cup of coffee, get comfy and go to his blog. Read his post (and previous posts) from yesterday, Oct. 22!

  20. I would like to thank you josh and liz, because of this blog you have opened alot of our eyes and reaffirmed why we are voting for who we are voting for. I think a lot of us are on our knees now and praying for Christians to use the tools Randy has laid out for us, as a result of your blog. Thank you so much. I am hoping this will change many Christians views and I am so glad this topic was brought up. Before this blog post, I was voting for John Mccain because he was a better candidate for me. I am no longer voting for a person, but for innocent babies that the Lord loves.

  21. Great stuff guys. Just briefly (hopefully), I have struggled recently too with the idea of basing my vote on just one issue. I think many very moral issues, ones with which we as Christians ought to be concerned for sure, are totally disregarded. Sometimes we political conservatives even tend to take positions quite contrary to what the Bible values. I’m not politically savvy at all but I have gotten the impression at times that the right (correct) right (conservative) way to think is that taking care of the poor is bad, or that we are supposed to hate Muslims, or that social justice is something you have to be a crazy liberal to want, or that war is ever a good thing.That being said though, I think it is totally appropriate to vote based on one issue, if for you that issue is a deal breaker. And I still kind of think abortion should be.Others on here have made this point well (Like Faith, Sarah, Randy, Piper, etc.), and others not so well (like anonymous #1), so I’ll just address one or two other things that maybe haven’t gotten due response. On the point that nothing has changed with pro-life presidents and that politicians aren’t the problem. I think that’s a good point Josh, and Andy (how’s it going by the way Andy?), and others. However, I don’t think that takes away my responsibility as a voter. True, the president cannot ultimately effect the abortion issue – or anything for that matter – but I don’t think we should just assume that since Roe v. Wade hasn’t been overturned, steps have not been made in the right direction, steps that Obama plans to wipe out all at once immediately (hence the “freedom of choice act” as I understand it). It’s my prerogative as well as my responsibility to vote based primarily on this issue and the principles (which I consider vital) underlying it. I agree Josh that we shouldn’t blame the politicians; it’s totally true that it’s people’s and sin’s fault, not theirs, that babies are dying. But if I have to decide on one guy or the other, and since they are the ones in the business of effecting those kinds of things at least in a minor way, I will indeed take it into account in my voting. But, again, I agree it doesn’t make any sense to blame or “lash out” against politicians for the world’s sin.And to the point that abortions still happened when they were illegal, and that they would if it were illegal again, I’m not sure I understand the logic behind bringing that up. True it’s frustrating that sin cannot be legislated away, but that does not mean it shouldn’t matter to us. I know that’s not what anyone is saying but sometimes it sounds like people say that since abortion will always happen anyway, we should not be effected in our voting by it. Murders, rapes,… still happen a lot even though they are illegal, but that does not reduce by one degree the significance of maintaining the laws against them, nor does it render those laws entirely ineffective. Maybe someone who mentioned that abortions would happen even if they were illegal could clarify their point for bringing that fact (and, of course, I do grant it as a fact for sure, until the Kingdom is consumated) into the discussion. And please forgive my mental sluggishness to make the logical connection.That last part sounded sarcastic. Honestly it wasn’t intended to be. I really want to understand the logic. And I totally agree, Andy and Josh, that other approaches like education, dealing directly with individuals, and emphasizing the responsibility of parents might be just as, if not more, effective than politics and politicians could ever be in the battle for babies’ lives.Much too much rambling. Must get back to work. Thanks again Josh, and everyone, for provoking thought.

  22. This is an interesting video from the Catholic perspective, dealing with the issue of life. Thought I would share, though I am not Catholic. The view that life is sacred and should be protected at all stages is a Christian idea. The fact that the next president will be appointing judges to the supreme court is a huge consideration for all of us, because they WILL effect this issue. http://www.onenewsnow.com/valuesvoters.aspx

  23. This is brother-in-law Scott. Josh’s first time blogging prompted me to reply for the first time. 🙂 Thanks for this forum to discuss the election issues, Josh and Liz. I’m not sure why everybody is saying that Bush has not done anything in his 8 years related to the abortion issue. In fact, he has done everything he can. (I’m not crazy about a lot of decisions Bush has made, but he’s made the right ones on this issue.)1. In the second term he made 2 conservative Supreme Court appointments, one replacing conservative justice Rehnquist (doesn’t change the balance of the Supreme Court) and the other replacing abortion-liberal justice O’Connor (moving the court to be more conservative). This leaves the court with 4 conservative justices (ages 53, 58, 60 and 72), 4 liberal justices (ages 69, 70, 75, and 88), and one swing-voter on the abortion issue(age 72). Had John Kerry won the election in 2004, those 2 50-year olds would definitely be liberal justices and the court would be VERY liberal. So he has made huge strides in affecting the direction of the Supreme Court.2. Though Roe v. Wade is the national policy on abortion, he has allowed state laws to implement parental consent clauses, mandatory waiting periods, and other restrictions on abortion (like South Dakota which has a legal abortion ban except in the case where the mother’s life is in danger). Obama says “the first I would do” is sign the Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA), which would invalidate all these state and local pro-life victories.3. The Partial-birth Abortion Ban Act was signed signed into law by Bush in 2003, and upheld by the Supreme Court in 2007, thanks to Bush’s 2 conservative appointments in 2005 and 2006.There may be other things he has done, but these are the major ones I am aware of. I might be pointing out the obvious here, but the next justices likely to retire are the 2 liberal justices, Stevens (88) and Ginsberg (75). In the third presidential debate, Obama himself indicated that “Roe hangs in the balance” during this election. As you can see above in my post, replacing either of these liberal justices with a conservative justice would swing the court into a pro-life position. So I think that now, more than ever, a presidential candidate is in the position to make a big impact on the abortion issue. So if there’s ever a time to vote pro-life, this is where it could count in terms of putting the Supreme Court in a position to overturn Roe.The last thing I want to say has to do with the statement that “We are all alive because our parents are pro-life not because the president was.” While I AM glad my parents are pro-life, being pro-life goes further than caring that I and my friends are alive. It has everything to do with standing up for the rights of people whose parents would otherwise choose to not let them live.I was undecided on who to vote for until the 3rd presidential debate, when I heard Obama talk about abortion. It was amazing to me how good he can make himself sound when his record clearly shows that he is as liberal as you can get on the abortion issue. It made me wonder where he really stands on the other things he sounds so good on. So while I agree that McCain would not be my first choice, I will still be voting for him.Scott

  24. “It’s not like Roe v. Wade was passed and America started having abortions.” This statement, and others like it, astounds me. Yes it’s true that abortions happened before Roe v. Wade, and would undoubtedly continue if it were reversed. But MILLIONS!? A lucrative business in the USA? Absolutely not. This IS a pivotal issue.Loie Mathews

  25. Bravo Nephew Josh! You should have been in our Sunday service this morning. Our pastor is a man who tackles these difficult issues and he nailed this one right on the head this morning. He echoed my own values on this. (I will answer your question)I hope no one takes offense at what I have to say here…. but if they do I won't lose any sleep over it. Everything I state here IS proven fact, not fiction and is from factual data and sources. If you do the research you will find the true from the false in anything. Our pastor addressed the issues with the economy and healthcare and many other issues. He stated that he didn't particularly care for either candidate completely. But he also remained unbiased when it came to this topic. He addressed abortion not as a political issue but as a moral and biblical issue which it is. Isaiah 44:2 & Jeremiah 1:5 both clearly state when life begins. He creates life and humans have been ending that life in the womb and outside it (partial birth abortion) ever since R VS W. I cite a recent example of the contradiction of this "legal" law:–The girl who went to a prom and aborted her baby in a toilet in the bathroom, composed herself and went back out to dance was arrested and charged with murder. So what is the difference between her doing that or stopping off at an abortion clinic before going to the prom and doing it? One is legal and one isn't. What is the real difference? Where she did it? Was the result any different? There are other cases but this one made it to the top of the headlines in a big way. Bottom Line: We are saved by grace by the blood of Jesus. Regardless if a person is Christian or not, we all will stand before the True "Throne" (not a supreme court justice) and account for our lives. If I vote for a candidate who supports abortion I will have to answer to that because I did nothing to prevent it. I am only one person but I would rather pay a little more for health benefits or miss out on some money to help save lives and know I did what was right. Economies recover, wars end, issues are eventually resolved. But lives that are lost never recover. How many talented doctors and scientists who could be answering the riddles behind cancer and HIV and other diseases or other people who could have had the answers to many problems we face today have never had a chance to do so because they…… were aborted? Someone may say I have no proof of that claim. How can it not be true? From 1973 to just 2004 there were over 48 million abortions in this country; the vast majority being simple irresponsibility, not a mother's life being in danger. We live in an age of ever increasing entitlement rather than taking responsibility. Considering the complete disregard for human life that R VS W has been perverted into I will vote for the candidate who opposes it. Is he perfect? No, but does anyone know a past president who was? FACT: Both sides of politics have been responsible for most all the issues we are facing today outside of abortion. No one party can be blamed for the problems we face.(The "anonymous" entry near the beginning of these comments is pretty close on his figures by fact on the dollars spent on immigration versus the war) I will take my chances on McCain as at least I know where he stands as he has been around long enough to establish a record against abortion as well as other issues we face. He has messed up in the past but was humble enough to admit it and do something about it. We as Americans place too much emphasis on a single person (president) when it is the congress who allows or disallows most laws to be passed. The media hypes everything much farther and distorts the facts so painfully when it comes to elections and just about anything that is an emotional topic not to mention that they are mostly liberal and are just trying to push their own agendas. Everyone would do themselves as well as everyone else a great service to turn off the TV and do some research online at VALID sites or elsewher as to the candidates, their positions, how they have voted in the past as well as any other ballot measures. One of the great tragedies in democracy are those who go to vote and just check things off not being clear as to what is really being voted for. When I was younger I was guilty of this as well. It is like handing a gun to a small child. "I didn't have the time" is a poor excuse. Scott is correct: Bush was clear on his views about abortion and stem cell research pertaining to aborted fetuses. Our church posts all Pastor Mike's sermons on our website at:http://www.getnewlife.org/index.aspIt will be posted soon if you care to listen. It was a very convicting message. Josh, for someone who doesn't write much you did a very decent job! Thanks for not ducking the issue. And all my blog has on it are photo shoots! I'm missing the boat!We will see you and your lovely (& pregnant wife) Thanksgiving!Love,Uncle Bill

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